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HARVEST
LANGSTON HUGHES' TESTIMONY BEFORE HUAC.
In 1953, Langston Hughes was called before
the House on Un-Amercican Activities Committee (HUAC) to explain the
pro-Soviet content of several of his poems, short stories, and plays of the
1930s and on into the 1940s.
Having already severed most of his connections with
the political left by this time, Langston Hughes chose to be a
"friendly" witness answering the Committee's questions in great
detail. But, scrupulously, he carefully avoided saying anything that
would implicate anyone else and spoke instead exclusively on his own
ideological and political development.
This testimony is extremely revealing about the
motivations behind his attraction to and eventual disillusionment with
revolutionary ideologies and the way these attitudes influenced his artistic
work.
The author Dashiell Hammett was called before the
same session of HUAC. His testimony is included immediately
following Hughes' as an illustration of the ways in which many
"UN-friendly" witness chose to respond to the Committee.
 HEARING
BEFORE THE
PERMANENT SUBCOMMITTEE ON
INVESTIGATIONS OF THE COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS
UNITED STATES SENATE
83d
CONGRESS
1st SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. Res. 40
A
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS TO EMPLOY TEMPORARY
ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL AND INCREASING THE LIMIT
OF EXPENDITURES
MARCH
24, 25, AND 26, 1953
PART
1
COMMITTEE
ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS
JOSEPH
R. MCCARTHY, Wisconsin, Chairman
KARL B. MUNDT, South Dakota
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas
MARGARET CHASE SMITH, Maine
CLYDE R. HOEY, North Carolina
HENRY C. DWORSHAK, Idaho
HUBERT H. HUMPHREY, Minnesota
EVERETT MCKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois
HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington
JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland
JOHN F. KENNEDY, Massachusetts
CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan
STUART SYMINGTON, Missouri
Walter
L. Reynolds, Chief Clerk
Permanent
Subcommittee on Investigations
JOSEPH
R. MCCARTHY, Wisconsin, Chairman
KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas
EVERETT MCKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois
HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington
CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan
STUART SYMINGTON, Missouri
Roy
M. Cohn, Chief Counsel
Francis D. Flanagan, General Counsel and Staff Director
TESTIMONY
OP LANGSTON HUGHES, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL,
FRANK D. REEVES
Mr.
Cohn. The next witness will be Langston Hughes.
The
Chairman. Mr. Langston Hughes.
Mr.
Hughes, will you raise your right hand ? In this matter now
in
hearing before the committee, do you solemnly swear to tell the
truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr.
Hughes. I do.
The
Chairman. I understand you are accompanied by a lawyer,
also,
Mr. Hughes ?
Mr.
Hughes. By counsel, yes, sir.
The
Chairman. Will you identify your counsel ?
Mr.
Reeves. Frank D. Reeves, member of the Bar of the District
of
Columbia.
Mr.
Cohn. Mr. Chairman, I would like to advise the Chair first
of
all that the State Department information centers are now using
approximately
16 of the collected works of Langston Hughes in ap-
proximately
51 information centers throughout the world.
The
Chairman. In other words, 16 different books in 51 different
information
centers ?
Mr.
Cohn. That is correct, Mr. Chairman.
The
Chairman. Do they have all 16 in each information center ?
Mr.
Cohn. No; they don't.
The
Chairman. They have varying numbers.
Mr.
Cohn. They have varying numbers in varying information
centers.
The number of copies in use is approximately 200, a total of
200,
for all 16.
Now,
you reside in New York, Mr. Hughes ?
Mr.
Hughes. Yes; I do.
Mr.
Cohn. And you are Langston Hughes, the well known poet.
It
that right?
Mr.
Hughes. That is correct, sir.
Mr.
Cohn. And for how long a period of time have you been writ-
ing
poetry and prose, Mr. Hughes ?
Mr.
Hughes. Since the eighth grade. I would have been at that
time
perhaps 14.
Mr.
Cohn. And ever since that time, you have been writing poetry
and
prose. It that right?
Mr.
Hughes. That is right, almost 40 years.
Mr.
Cohn. And you are still writing poetry and prose. Is that
correct
?
Mr.
Hughes. That is correct.
Mr.
Cohn. And a good many of your works have been published
not
only in English but in other languages throughout the world.
Is
that right?
Mr.
Hughes. That is correct.
Mr.
Cohn. And you have achieved considerable renown as a result
of
your works. It that a fair statement ?
Mr.
Hughes. That is a fair statement ; yes.
Mr.
Cohn. Now, Mr. Hughes, would you tell this committee frankly
as
to whether or not there was ever a period of time in your life when
you
believed in the Soviet form of government?
Mr.
Hughes. There was such a period.
Mr.
Cohn. And when did that period end ?
Mr.
Hughes. There was no abrupt ending, but I would say, that
roughly
the beginnings of my sympathies with Soviet ideology were
coincident
with the Scottsboro case, the American depression, and
that
they ran through for some 10 or 12 years or more, certainly up
to
the Nazi -Soviet Pact, and perhaps, in relation to some aspects
of
the Soviet ideology, further, because we were allies, as you know,
with
the Soviet Union during the war. So some aspects of my writing
would
reflect that relationship, that war relationship.
Mr.
Cohn. And, as a matter of fact, when would you say you com-
pletely
broke with the Soviet ideology?
Mr.
Hughes. I would say a complete reorientation of my thinking
and
emotional feelings occurred roughly 4 or 5 years ago.
Mr.
Cohn. About 4 or 5 years ago ?
Mr.
Hughes. Roughly.
Mr.
Cohn. I notice that in 1949 you made a statement in defense
of
the Communist leaders who were on trial, which was published
in
the Daily Worker. Would you say that your complete break came
thereafter?
Mr.
Hughes. I would say that whatever quotation you are refer-
ring
to, sir, might have been made in a spirit of wishing to preserve
our
civil liberties for everyone, and in a kind of remembrance of the
happenings
in Germany and what it had led to for minority peoples
there,
and a fear on my part that possibly, if we disregarded civil
liberties,
it might lead to that in relation to the Negro people.
Mr.
Cohn. Now, you have changed your views in regard to that?
You
have not changed your views regarding civil rights, but you have
changed
your views as to under what system they can best be achieved?
Mr.
Hughes. Well, I have certainly changed my views in regard
to
the fact that one may not get a fair trial in America. I believe
that
one can and one does.
Mr.
Cohn. You now believe that one can and one does get a fair
trial
in this country?
Mr.
Hughes. Speaking by and large. Of course, we have our judi-
cial
defects, as does every system or country.
Mr.
Cohn. Would you say what you would call your complete
change
in ideology came about 1050?
Mr.
Hughes. I would say certainly by 1050; yes.
Mr.
Cohn. All right. Now, could you tell us briefly, Mr. Hughes,
just
what it was that made you change your thinking from a belief
over
a period of years to the effect that the Soviet form of government
was
best for this country, to the present day, when you no longer be-
lieve
that, and when you are a believer in the American form of
government?
Mr.
Hughes. Well, there would be two aspects, and I would say,
sir,
that I have always been a believer in the American form of govern-
ment
in any case, but interested in certain aspects of other forms of
government,
and I would like to give two interpretations of my feel-
ing
about my reorientation and change. The Nazi-Soviet Pact was,
of
course, very disillusioning and shook up a great many people, and
then
further evidences of, shall we say, spreading imperialist aggres-
sion.
My own observations in 1931-32, as a writer, which remained
with
me all the time, of the lack of freedom of expression in the Soviet
Union
for writers, which I never agreed with before I went there or
afterward
— those things gradually began to sink in deeper and deeper.
And
then, in our own country, there has been, within the last 10
years,
certainly within the war period, a very great increase in the
rate
of acceleration of improvement in race relations. There has been
a
very distinct step forward in race relations, a greater understanding
of
the need for greater democracy for the Negro people, and then the
recent
Supreme Court decisions, which bolstered up the right to vote,
the
right to travel, and so on, have given me great heart and great
confidence
in the potentialities of what we can do here.
Mr.
Cohn. Have you received any disillusionment recently, con-
cerning
the treatment of minorities by the Soviet Union?
Mr.
Hughes. Well, the evidence in the press — I have not been there,
of
course, myself — indicating persecution and terror against the Jew-
ish
people, has been very appalling to me.
Mr.
Cohn. Mr. Hughes, will you agree that during the time you
were
a believer in the Soviet form of government, and aspects of it,
you
wrote some poetry which, in rather plain terms, reflected your
feelings
during that period of time?
Mr.
Hughes. I certainly did, sir.
Mr.
Cohn. You wrote one poem, I recall, beginning, "Put another
'S'
in the USA to make it Soviet," and so on and so forth.
Mr.
Hughes. I did.
Mr.
Cohn. And various poems referring to revolution.
Mr.
Hughes. Good Morning, Revolution.
Mr.
Cohn. Good Morning Revolution.
Senator
McClellan. May I inquire of counsel if you are quoting
from
books or works of the author that are now in the library ?
Mr.
Cohn. No; this one poem I quoted, "Put another 'S' in the
USA
to make it Soviet," is as far as we know not in any poems in
the
collection in the information centers.
Senator
McClellan. I think the record should show that. I would
not
want to be under any misapprehension.
The
Chairman. The reason for this type of questioning is to show
the
type of thinking on the part of this individual at the time he
wrote
these books.
Senator
McClellan. I just wanted to keep the record straight.
Mr.
Cohn. Now, as recently as 1950, Mr. Hughes, we have a book
entitled
"Simple Speaks His Mind." Do you recall that book?
Mr.
Hughes. Yes; I do.
Mr.
Cohn. And that is not in poetry, but that is a series of short
stories.
Is that correct?
Mr.
Hughes. Humorous sketches, mainly, and stories.
Mr.
Cohn. This book is today, Mr. Chairman, being used by the
State
Department in its information centers.
Now,
I am quoting now from the last paragraph of one of these
incidents
in this book, entitled, "Something to Lean On." Do you
recall
that one?
Mr.
Hughes. Not as to facts, but I do recall the title of the chapter.
Mr.
Cohn. You do recall the title. I would like you to follow along
this.
It concludes as f olows :
"You
figure the Constitution has fallen down on you?" "I do," said
Simple,
"Just
like it fell down on that poor Negro lynched last month. Did anybody out
of
that mob go to jail? Not a living soul! But just kidnap some little small
white
baby and take it across the street, and you will do 20 years. The FBI will
spread
its dragnet and drag in 40 suspeetions before morning. And if you are
colored,
don't get caught selling a half pint of bootleg licker, or writing a few
numbers.
They will put you in every jail there is. But southerners can beat
you,
burn you, lynch you, and hang you to a tree — and every one of them will
go
scot free. Gimme another beer, Tony! I can lean on this bar, but I ain't
got
another thing in the USA on which to lean."
Is
that an accurate quotation ?
Mr.
Hughes. That is correct.
The
Chairman. May I ask counsel : Do you know in what libraries
that
is contained?
Mr.
Cohn. I think we can check that, Mr. Chairman. It is located
in
Tel-Aviv, Israel, Singapore, Hongkong, K-u-a-1-a L-u-m-p-o-r, at
the
present time.
Now,
in that same connection, is there another incident entitled
"When
a Man Sees Red" ?
Mr.
Hughes. There is.
Mr.
Cohn. And that is a takeoff on an imaginary hearing of an
Un-American
Activities Committee; is that right ?
Mr.
Hughes. That is correct.
Mr.
Cohn. Which, without going into it in full detail, thoroughly
ridicules
the activities of the committee and its attempt to expose
communism
and the motives of those trying to do that. Is that fair?
Mr.
Hughes. No, sir; I believe that is not a fair statement of the
contents
of that chapter.
Mr.
Cohn. I want to avoid reading the whole thing, but why do you
not
tell us ?
Mr.
Hughes. If you don't mind, may I glance at it a moment?
Mr.
Cohn. Certainly.
The
Chairman. I might suggest, Mr. Counsel, that it would be ex-
tremely
difficult, with our limited staff, to finally fix responsibility and
find
the people who picked these particular works and had them pur-
chased.
I wonder if we could not ask Mr. McLeod if he would not
utilize
his office to try and find the specific individuals who are respon-
sible
for picking all these Communist books and paying for them ?
Mr.
Cohn. We can certainly do that, Mr. Chairman. We can prob-
ably
work out a system whereby we could work along with them.
The
Chairman. Otherwise it would be difficult for you to ever run
this
down to the men.
Mr.
Cohn. I might say this, Mr. Chairman. Some suggestion has
been
made that they came from some old collections. A good many
of
these books were purchased as recently as 1950, '51, and '52; so
that
argument does not hold water. We will call Mr. McLeod's office.
The
Chairman. I think we should also have in the record the dates
of
purchase, if we can possibly get them. In other words, I would
like
to know which of those books were received from OWI and put
in
the libraries, if any of them, and which have been purchased
recently.
Incidentally,
while the witness is examining the work, I understand
you
have a list of the Lattimore books that have been used.
Dave,
do you have those?
Mr.
Schine. Yes, sir.
The
Chairman. Have you verified them, first, with the State De-
partment
'.
Mr.
Schine. Yes, this is their list. The State Department prepared
the
list.
The
Chairman. Would you read those into the record?
Mr.
Schine. Yes, I will.
These
books are by Owen Lattimore, and they are scattered through-
out
the Information centers. There are approximately 13 books, 161
copies
altogether in 60 Information centers.
America
and Asia ; China, As a Short History ; China, Yesterday
and
Today ; Inner Asian Frontiers of China ; The Making of Modern
China
; Mongol Journeys ; Ordeal by Slander
The
Chairman. I may say that I recognize that name, "Ordeal by
Slander."
Mr.
Schine. Pivot of Asia; Situation in Asia; Solution in Asia.
That
is the list we have here, Mr. Chairman.
The
Chairman. Just from personal curiosity, do you know what
libraries
the book, Ordeal by Slander, has been placed in ? In what
parts
of the world ?
Mr.
Schine. We will check that.
Mr.
Hughes. I have finished, sir.
Mr.
Cohn. Have you read that ?
Mr.
Hughes. I have looked through it. I remember- it now.
Mr.
Cohn. Would you want to comment on that, Mr. Hughes ?
Mr.
Hughes. On When a Man Sees Red, the chapter in Simple
Speaks
His Mind ?
Mr.
Cohn. Yes.
Mr.
Hughes. It is, or was, a newspaper column, and I cannot tell
you
exactly when it was written, but I can tell you approximately. It
was
written following the incident as reported in the papers, which
1
think occurred in the Un-American Committee, where one of the
counsel,
or one of the members of the committee, if I remember cor-
rectly,
called a Negro witness a very ugly name. And that went
throughout
the Negro press and shocked the Negro people very deeply.
And
many people in Harlem — and this book, incidentally, is about a
character
who lives in Harlem — many people felt that that indicated
that
certainly some of the members of that Un-American Committee
were
unfair to Negroes, and that they shouldn't be able to call a man
the
name that this man was called, and which Negroes call "playing the
dozens,"
or talking about one's mother.
So
this character of mine is a kind of Negro Mr. Dpoley, who, for
a
period of the past 10 years at least, has been commenting in the pub-
lic
prints in a weekly column on the passing happenings. It is a
fictional
character who comments and editorializes on passing happen-
ings
in terms largely of what the average uneducated or not too well
educated
Negro in a big city might think about them. And the fiction
is
my own.
Mr.
Cohn. What is your own ?
Mr.
Hughes. The creation of the fictional character is my own, but
there
is also in these columns another character, who generally pre-
sents
opposing views. There is an "I," and there is a simple character.
The
Chairman. May I ask you this, Mr. Hughes : Keeping in mind
that
the information program is supposed to be for the purpose of
fighting
communism, would you think that placing this book of yours
on
the shelves of our libraries throughout the world, the book in which
you
attack the Un-American Activities Committee as being unfair — I
am
asking what you think as of today ; I am not speaking of how you
felt
then — as of today, do you think that would be an effective way
of
fighting communism ? Or would that tend to put us in a bad light
as
compared to the Communist nation?
Mr.
Hughes. If I may give you an answer in two parts, I think
the
book probably would be in some ways very confusing to foreign
people,
and the nuances that are expressed very often in slang, or
sometimes
even in dialect, would be almost impossible for them to get,
and
therefore they might be very confused. And the other thing, I
think,
sir, is this : That if we wanted to look at it from the angle of
freedom
of the press in our country, and our traditional right to criti-
cize
the branches of our Government, and if we wanted to look at
that
chapter from that standpoint, then it would show, in my opinion,
to
foreign peoples, that we had freedom of the press intact, that we
had
kept the right to satirically comment upon a committee of our
Government,
which certainly some Negro people have felt has not been
very
fair to them.
The
Chairman. Let me ask you this. You appear to be very frank
in
your answers, and while I may disagree with some of your conclu-
sions,
do I understand that your testimony is that the 16 different
books
of yours which were purchased by the information program did
largely
follow the Communist line?
Mr.
Hughes. Some of those books very largely followed at times
some
aspects of the Communist line, reflecting my sympathy with
them.
But not all of them, sir.
The
Chairman. Now, let us take those that you think followed the
Communist
line. Do you feel that those books should be on our shelves
throughout
the world, with the apparent stamp of approval of the
United
States Government?
Mr.
Hughes. I was certainly amazed to hear that they were. I was
surprised
; and I would certainly say "No."
The
Chairman. Let me ask you this question. I understand your
testimony
to be that you never actually joined the Communist Party;
that
while you were in Russia, you were solicited to join it; that you
have
for a long period of time been a sympathizer with the Commu-
nist
cause, and that as of today you definitely are neither a member
of
the party nor a sympathizer with the cause. Is that correct?
Mr.
Hughes. That is correct, sir.
Mr.
Schine. Mr. Chairman, I have the places where Ordeal by
Slander,
by Owen Lattimore, was used in the overseas information
centers.
Calcutta and Bombay.
The
Chairman. Just out of curiosity, they did not put the Mc-
Carthy
book on the shelves ?
Mr.
Cohn. On that, Mr. Chairman, we found that before we made
any
inquiry the State Department themselves had made an inquiry at
the
master file to see whether they had placed any of your books in the
libraries,
and there was an entirely negative report on each book.
Mr.
Chairman, in deference to Mr. Hughes, there are a number of
writings
of his written during this period of time which are being
included
in the collections of the information centers throughout the
world
which I frankly think should not be read to the public. Some
of
them use words and terms that would not be too good. I wonder
if
we could have them entered into the record. We went into them
with
Mr. Hughes in executive session.
The
Chairman. I think you are right, Counsel. I do not think
those
passages should be read over the air. But I do think that
the
passages should be put in the record, so that the record will be
complete
as to the type of literature that the information program
has
been putting out.
I
would like to emphasize — and I think we should from time to
time
— that when we speak of the information program we are speak-
ing
of the old administration, and I think Dr. Johnson, the new Ad-
ministrator,
is making very intelligent and sincere attempts to clean
it
up and make it an American information program.
Mr.
Cohn. Now, Mr. Hughes, the substance of your testimony, then,
as
I understand it, is that you were quite surprised and disturbed to
learn
that there are in use now in our information program to fight
communism
and give a true picture of the American way of life, works
of
yours written at a period of time when you were a Communist
sympathizer?
Mr.
Hughes. I am surprised, sir, and I do not know how they be-
came
available, at this moment, because they have been long out of
print,
most of those works, and they are very hard to get anyway.
Mr.
Cohn. And it is your frank testimony to the committee that you
certainly
would not think those early works of yours should be in-
cluded
in a program to fight communism today ?
Mr.
Hughes. No, I would not. I have made no attempt to get them
back
into circulation. Some of them have been out of print for at least
12
or 15 years.
Mr.
Cohn. Very frankly, you are not particularly proud of them at
this
stage?
Mr.
Hughes. They do not represent my current thinking, nor my
thinking
for the last, say, 6 or 8 years, at any rate.
Mr.
Cohn. And those are not the selections from your writings
that
you would want included in our information program ?
Mr.
Hughes. No ; I would not. I have more recent books which I
would
much prefer, if any books of mine are kept on the shelves.
Mr.
Cohn. Written after you came to the realization you described
to
use today, that the answer to the problems which disturb you is to
be
found in this country and under our form of government?
Mr.
Hughes. That is right; published afterward, certainly.
The
Chairman. Senator McClellan?
Senator
McClellan. I am very much interested in this particular
line
of questioning and testimony. Do I understand that since you
came
to the conclusion that you were wrong about communism, and
subsequent
to the time you wrote these books that are now found in
these
libraries, you have written other works, other books, that repudi-
ate
the philosophy that you expressed in these writings that we now
find
in the libraries ?
Mr.
Hughes. I would say that they certainly contradict the philoso-
phy,
and they certainly express my prodemocratic beliefs and my faith
in
democracy.
Senator
McClellan. What interests me is that I want to commend
anyone
who will be as frank about their errors of the past as you are
being
before this committee and before the public. It is always quite
refreshing
and comforting to know that any Communist or Communist
sympathizer
has discovered the error of his ways and beliefs, and
changes.
But I have always thought that with repentance or reforma-
tion
comes deeds and action. And I was interested to know whether,
since
you came to the conclusion that the ideology of communism was
wrong,
you have, since you are a writer, undertaken to write books or
other
material that would repudiate your former writings and
philosophy.
Mr.
Hughes. Could I point out two or three examples which I think
do
that, if I may ?
Senator
McClellan. Yes. You are being very sincere, and I was
hoping
that you would have some real evidence of your change, that
you
have done and are doing what you can to make amends for what-
ever
damage you may have done by previous writing.
Mr.
Hughes. There is a poem of mine called Freedom's Plow, sir,
which
was written, or rather published, about 10 years ago, but which
I
have, as nearly as I can, constantly kept in circulation, and which is
very
much a statement of my belief in American democracy and its
potentialities
for the Negro people.
There
is a story, if we want something much more recent, in my
book
of short stories, Laughing To Keep From Crying, my last
book
of adult prose, which came out, I think, a year or more ago,
in
1952, which contains a story called One Friday Morning, in which
I
reaffirm, through a dramatic situation, the potentialities of our
democracy
for a Negro girl who has had a very humiliating Jim
Crow
experience. And it is pointed out to her that the Irish people
went
through a period when they were humiliated and segregated
and
stoned; and the Jewish people have had their difficulties, and
that
some of those difficulties no longer exist for other former minority
groups,
and the belief in our potentialities is reaffirmed for this Negro
student
in this story.
Just
very briefly, as to one or two more things of that nature, poems
like
Mystery, in Montage of a Dream Deferred, my last book of
poems,
and then my very last book, the very last paragraph of my last
book,
which is about eight lines, if I may read read it to you. This
book
came out 2 months or 3 months ago, and the last paragraph of it
goes
like this:
Our
country has many problems still to solve, but America is young, big,
strong,
and beautiful, and we are trying very bard to be, as the flag says, one
Nation,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Here people are free to
vote
and work out their problems. In some countries people are governed by
rulers,
and ordinary folks can't do a think about it. But here all of us are a
part
of democracy. By taking an interest in our Government, and by treating
our
neighbors as we would like to be treated, each one of us can help make our
country
the most wonderful country in the world.
That
book is called The First Book of Negroes.
Senator
McClellan. I certainly commend you for that authorship
of
those remarks. I think they indicate that you have had a change
in
your beliefs and convictions about this country, and I wish that
these
books that are in the libraries, your earlier publications, might
be
replaced with some of your later works.
Mr.
Hughes. I would be very happy if that were to happen.
Senator
McClellan. And I am sure that the books were not in the
libraries
with your consent. You had no knowledge of that.
The
Chairman. May I ask counsel: Did the information program
buy
any of Mr. Hughes' books after his reversal, when he quit sup-
porting
the Soviet system, and started to support ours?
Mr.
Cohn. As he has mentioned these books, I have gone through
the
list and do not find them, but I wouldn't want to state that con-
clusively
until I have checked with the State Department on that,
Senator.
The
Chairman. I have been asked to put in the record a poem
written
by Mr. Hughes while he was, as he says, following the Com-
munist
Party line and believing in it, for the purpose of showing the
type
of material that was written by those who did believe in the
Communist
cause. I do not believe it is necessary to read it. We
will
merely insert it in the record. As far as I know, this was not
in
any of the books purchased by the information program. This is
merely
included in the record on request, to show the type of thinking
of
Mr. Hughes at that time, the type of writings which were being pur-
chased.
The title, incidentally," is "Goodbye Christ."
(The
material referred to is as follows:)
Goodbye,
Christ
Langston Hughes
Listen,
Christ
You did all right in your day, I reckon —
But that day's gone now.
They
ghosted you up a swell story too,
Called it Bible—
But it's dead now.
The
popes and the preachers 've
Made too much money from it.
They've sold you to too many
Kings, generals, robbers, and killers —
Even
to the Czar and the Cossacks,
Even to Rockefeller's church,
Even to the SATURDAY EVENING POST.
You ain't no good no more.
They've
pawned you
Till you've done wore out.
Goodbye,
Christ Jesus Lord God Jehova,
Beat it on away from here now.
Make
way for a new guy with no religion
at all—
A real guy named
Marx Communist Lenin Peasant Stalin
Worker ME—
I
said "ME" !
Go
ahead on now,
You're getting in the way of things, Lord,
And please take Saint Ghandi with you
when you go,
And Saint Pope Pius,
And Saint Aimie McPherson,
And big black Saint Becton
Of the Consecrated Dime.
Move
!
Don't be so slow about movin' !
The world is mine from now on —
Nobody's
gonna sell ME
To a king, or a general,
Or a millionaire.
Mr.
Cohn. You no longer hold any of the views expressed in that
poem?
Mr.
Hughes. No; I do not. It is a very young, awkward poem,
written
in the late 1920's or early 1930's. It does not express my views
or
my artistic techniques today.
The
Chairman. It was written at a time when you were devoted
to
the Communist cause, and you would not subscribe to it at this time
at
all?
Mr.
Hughes. No, sir ; I certainly would not.
The
Chairman. Thank you.
Mr.
Cohn. No further questions of Mr. Hughes.
The
Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Hughes.
Mr.
Hughes. I am excused now, sir?
The
Chairman. Yes.
May
I ask you just one question first? We have had so much
screaming
by certain elements of the press that witnesses have been
misused.
Now, you have been in contact with my staff for some time.
They
have interrogated you. Do you feel that you were in any way
mistreated
by the staff or by the committee?
Mr.
Hughes. I must say that I was agreeably surprised at the cour-
tesy
and friendliness with which I was received.
The
Chairman. In other words, from reading some of the press,
you
thought you would find the Senators and the staff might have
horns,
and 3^011 discovered that we did not have any horns at all.
Mr.
Hughes. Well, Senator Dirksen — is that his name?
The
Chairman. Senator Dirksen, yes. He is the other Senator. He
is
not here today.
Mr.
Hughes. He was, I thought, most gracious and in a sense help-
ful
in defining for me the area of this investigation; and the 37 young
men
who had to interrogate me, of course, had to interrogate me.
Am
I excused now?
The
Chairman. Thank you very much.
You
are excused.
TESTIMONY
OF SAMUEL DASHIELL HAMMETT
Mr.
Cohn. The next witness is Mr. Dashiell Hammett.
The
Chairman. Mr. Hammett, will you raise your right hand? In
this
matter now in hearing before the committee, do you solemnly
swear
to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help
you God ?
Mr.
Hammett. I do.
Mr.
Cohn. Could we have your full name, please, sir?
Mr.
Hammett. Samuel Dashiell Hammett.
Mr.
Cohn. Samuel Dashiell Hammett. Is that right?
Mr.
Hammett. That is right.
Mr.
Cohn. And what is your occupation ?
Mr.
Hammett. Writer.
Mr.
Cohn. You are a writer. Is that correct?
Mr.
Hammett. That is right,
Mr.
Cohn. And you are the author of a number of rather well-
known
detective stories. Is that correct?
Mr.
Hammett. That is right.
Mr.
Cohn. In addition to that, you have written, I think, in your
earlier
period, on some social issues. Is that correct?
Mr.
Hammett. Well, I have written short stories that may have—
you
know, it is impossible to write anything without taking some sort
of
stand on social issues.
Mr.
Cohn. You say it is impossible to write anything without tak-
ing
some sort of stand on a social issue. Now, are you the author of a
short
story known as Nightshade ?
Mr.
Hammett. I am.
Mr.
Cohn. I might state, Mr. Chairman, that some 300 of Mr.
Hammett's
books are in use in the Information Service today, located
in,
I believe, some 73 information centers; I am sorry, 300 copies, 18
books.
J r
You
haven't written 300 books; is that right?
Mr.
Hammett. That is a lot of books.
Mr.
Cohn. There are 18 books in use, including some collections of
short
stories and other things, and there are some 300 copies of those
located
in some 73 information centers.
Now
Mr. Hammett, when did you write your first published book?
Mr.
Hammett. The first book was Ked Harvest. It was published
in
1929. I think I wrote it in 1927, either 1927 or 1928.
Mr.
Cohn. At the time you wrote that book, were you a member
of
the Communist Party ?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer, on the grounds that an answer
might
tend to incriminate me, relying on my rights under the fifth
amendment
to the Constitution of the United States.
Mr.
Cohn. When did you write your last published book?
Mr.
Hammett. Well, I can't really answer that. Because some col-
lections
of short stories have been published. I imagine it was some
time
in the thirties, or perhaps the forties.
Mr.
Cohn. In the thirties or forties. At the time you wrote your
last
published book were you a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer on the grounds that an answer
might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
Cohn. If I were to ask you, with reference to these books,
whether
you were a member of the Communist Party at the time you
wrote
the books, what would your answer be ?
Mr.
Hammett. Same answer. I would decline to answer on the
grounds
that an answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
Cohn. Mr. Hamniettt, are you a member of the Communist
Party
today ?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer on the grounds that an answer
might
tend to incriminate me.
The
Chairman. Mr. Hammett, let me ask you this. Forgetting
about
yourself for the time being, is it a safe assumption that any
member
of the Communist Party, under Communist discipline, would
propagandize
the Communist cause, normally, regardless of whether
he
was writing fiction books or books on politics?
Mr.
Hammett. I can't answer that, because I honestly don't know.
The
Chairman. Well, now, you have told us that you will not tell
us
wdiether you are a member of the Communist Party today or not, on
the
ground that if you told us the answer might incriminate you. That
is
normally taken by this committee and the country as a whole. to
mean
that you are a member of the party, because if you were not you
would
simply say, "No," and it would not incriminate you. You see,
the
only reason that you have the right to refuse to answer is if you
feel
a truthful answer would incriminate you. An answer that you
were
not a Communist, if you were not a Communist, could not in-
criminate
you. Therefore, you should know considerable about the
Communist
movement, I assume.
Mr.
Hammett. Was that a question, sir?
The
Chairman. That is just a comment upon your statement.
Mr.
Counsel, do you have anything further?
Mr.
Cohn. Oh, yes.
Now,
Mr. Hammett, from these various books you have written,
have
you received royalty payments?
Mr.
Hammett. I have.
Mr.
Cohn. And I would assume that if the State Department pur-
chased
300 books, or whatever it was. you would receive some royal-
ties?
Mr.
Hammett. I should imagine so.
Mr.
Cohn. Could you tell us, without violating some secret of the
trade,
just what your royalties are, by percentage?
Mr.
Hammett. Well, it is not a case of violating a secret of the trade.
I
would have to look up contracts. And they vary, as a matter of fact,
On
the books published by Alfred Knopf, $2 or $2.50 books, or what-
ever
they were. I think it starts at 15 percent. On the short-story
collections,
most of which were reprints, the rovalties are lower than
that.
The
Chairman. Did any of the money which you received from
the
State Department find its way into the coffers of the Communist
Party?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer, on the grounds that an answer
might
tend to incriminate me.
The
Chairman. Let me put the question another way. Did you
contribute
any royalties received as a result of the purchase of these
books
by the State Department to the Communist Party?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer, on the grounds that an answer
might
tend to incriminate me.
The
Chairman. You have the right to decline.
Mr.
Cohn. Now, is it a fair statement to make that you have re-
ceived
substantial sums of money from the royalties on all of the books
you
have written ?
Mr.
Hammett. Yes: that is a fair statement,
Mr.
Cohn. And you decline to tell us whether any of those moneys
went
to the Communist Party?
Mr.
Hammett. That is right.
Mr.
Cohn. Now, Mr. Hammett. is it a fact that you have frequently
allowed
the use of your name as sponsor and member of governing
bodies
of Communist-front organizations?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer, on the ground that an answer
might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
Cohn. Mr. Hammett, is it a fact that you recently served a term
in
prison for contempt of court?
Mr.
Hammett. Yes.
Mr.
Cohn. And from what did that arise?
Mr.
Hammett. From declining to answer whether or not I was a
trustee
of the bail bond fund of the Civil Rights Congress.
The
Chairman. May I ask the photographers not to use any flash
pictures
while the witness is testifying?
Mr.
Cohn. Now. you said it was for refusal to answer. The fact
is:
You were a trustee of the bail fund of the Civil Rights Congress.
Is
that right ?
Mr.
Hammett. That was the question that I went to jail for not
answering;
yes.
Mr.
Cohn. Well, let me ask you: Were you a trustee of the bail
bond
fund of the Civil Rights Congress?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer on the grounds that an answer
might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
Cohn. And is it a fact that the Government's allegation was
that
you were one of the sureties on the bond of four fugitive Commu-
nist
leaders, that when they disappeared and ran away you were
called
in to see if you could aid the court in discovering where they
were,
and that a number of questions were put to you concerning their
whereabouts,
your activities as a surety, as a trustee of the group that
had
put up the money for the bail bond, and that you refused to
answer
?
Mr.
Hammett. I don't remember. I don't know whether I was
asked
anything about their whereabouts.
Mr.
Cohn. Well, I will now ask you : Do you know the whereabouts
of
any of the fugitive Communist leaders?
Mr.
Hammett. No; Gus Hall, I read, is in jail.
Mr.
Cohn. You know Gus Hall has been captured. How about the
other
three?
Mr.
Hammett. I don't know.
Mr.
Cohn. You say you don't know?
Mr.
Hammett. I don't know.
The
Chairman. You say you do not know where they are at this
moment.
Did you know where they were at any time while the Gov-
ernment
was searching for them ?
Mr.
Hammett. No.
The
Chairman. You did not. Do I understand that you arranged
the
bail bond for the fugitives?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer, on the grounds that an answer
might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
Cohn. Did you contribute any of the money that went toward
the
bail, which made it possible for these Communist leaders to go
free
on bail, and later to abscond?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer, on the grounds that an answer
might
tend to incriminate me.
The
Chairman. Have vou ever engaged in espionage against the
United
States?
Mr.
Hammett. No.
The
Chairman. Have you ever engaged in sabotage ?
Mr.
Hammett. No, sir.
The
Chairman. Do you believe that the Communist system is better
than
the system in use in this country?
Mr.
Hammett. I can't answer that question, because I really don't
know
what it means : is the Communist system better than the system
used
in this country?
The
Chairman. Do you believe that communism as practiced in
Russia
today is superior to our form of government?
Mr.
Hammett. Well, regardless of what I thought of communism
in
Russia today, it is doubtful if, you know, any one sort of thing —
one
is better for one country, and one is better for the other country.
I
don't think Russian communism is better for the United States, any
more
than I would think that some kind of imperialism were better for
the
United States.
The
Chairman. You seem to distinguish between Russian commu-
nism
and American communism. While I cannot see any distinction,
I
will assume there is for the purpose of the questioning. Would
you
think that American communism would be a good system to adopt
in
this country?
Mr.
Hammett. I will have to decline to answer that, on the grounds
that
an answer might tend to incriminate me. Because, I mean, that
can't
be answered "yes" or "no."
The
Chairman. You could not answer that "yes" or "no," whether
you
think communism is superior to our form of government?
Mr.
Hammett. You see, I don't understand. Theoretical commu-
nism
is no form of government. You know, there is no government.
And
I actually don't know, and I couldn't, without — even in the end,
I
doubt if I could give a definite answer.
The
Chairman. Would you favor the adoption of communism in
this
country?
Mr.
Hammett. You mean now?
The
Chairman. Yes.
Mr.
Hammett. No.
The
Chairman. You would not?
Mr.
Hammett. For one thing, it would seem to me impractical, if
most
people didn't want it.
The
Chairman. Did you favor the Communist system when you
were
writing these books?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer, on the grounds that an answer
might
tend to incriminate me.
The
Chairman. Senator McClellan, did you have a question ?
Senator
McClellan. You are declining to answer many questions,
taking
refuge in the privileges of the fifth amendment of the Consti-
tution,
because you are afraid you might incriminate yourself if you
answer
the questions. Are you sincere and honest in making that
statement
under oath?
Mr.
Hammett. Very sincere, sir. I really am quite afraid that
answers
will incriminate me, or will tend to incriminate me.
Senator
McClellan. Since you say you are afraid : Do you not
feel
that your refusal to answer is a voluntary act of self -incrimina-
tion
before the bar of public opinion ? Are you not voluntarily, now,
by
taking refuge in the fifth amendment to the Constitution, com-
mitting
an act of voluntary self-incrimination before the bar of public
opinion,
and do you not know that?
Mr.
Hammett. I do not think that is so, sir, and if it is so. unfor-
tunately,
or fortunately for me in those circumstances, the bar of
public
opinion did not send me to jail for G months.
Senator
McClellan. Violation of a law sent you to jail ; being
caught:
is that what you mean? Public opinion, as against being
caught
? Is that what you are trying to tell us ?
Mr.
Hammett. No, sir.
Senator
McClellan. I did not want to misunderstand you. I
thought
maybe public opinion or at least judicial opinion had some-
thing
to do with your going to jail. That was not a voluntary act,
was
it?
Mr.
Hammett. Going to jail ?
Senator
McClellan. Yes.
Mr.
Hammett. No, sir.
Senator
McClellan. Well, public opinion must have had some-
thing
to do with it, or judicial opinion at least.
I
do not want to misjudge anyone. I do not think the public wants
to.
We want to give you every opportunity to be fair to the com-
mittee,
to be fair to yourself, to be true to your country, if you care
anything
for this country. And I would like to ask you this question :
Would
this committee and the public in general be in error if they
judged
from your answers, or rather your lack of answers, to im-
portant
questions, and from your demeanor on the witness stand here,
that
you are now a Communist, that you have been a Communist, and
that
you still follow and subscribe to the Communist philosophy ?.'
Would
we be in error if we judged you that way from your actions?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer that question, because the an-
swer
might tend to incriminate me.
Senator
McClellan. Then we are free to judge according to our ob-
servations
and conclusions based on your refusal to answer and your
demeanor
on the stand.
Mr.
Hammett. Is that a question, sir?
Senator
McClellan. Well, if you want to answer it, it is a question..
Do
you want to take refuge under the Constitution again (
Mr.
Hammett. Yes, sir.
Senator
McClellan. All right. That is all.
The
Chairman. For your information, in case you do not know it,
Mr.
Budenz, the former editor of the Communist Daily Worker, gave
you
as one of those used by the Communist Party to further the Com-
munist
cause, and gave your name as a Communist under Communist
Party
discipline, recognized by him as such. If you care to comment
on
that, you may.
Mr.
Hammett. No, sir. I have no comment to make.
The
Chairman. I have no further questions.
Mr.
Cohn. I would like to ask : Is Mr. Budenz being truthful when
he
told us that you were a Communist ?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer, on the grounds that an answer
might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr.
Cohn. When he told us that you were under Communist
discipline?
Mr.
Hammett. I decline to answer, on the same grounds.
The
Chairman. May I ask one further question : Mr. Hammett, if
you
were spending, as we are, over a hundred million dollars a year
on
an information program allegedly for the purpose of fighting
communism,
and if you were in charge of that program to fight
communism,
would you purchase the works of some 75 Communist
authors
and distribute their works throughout the world, placing our
official
stamp of approval upon those works ?
Or
would you rather not answer that question ?
Mr.
Hammett. Well, I think — of course, I don't know — if I were
fighting
communism, I don't think I would do it by giving people
any
books at all.
The
Chairman. From an author, that sounds unusual.
Thank you very much. You are excused.
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